at the mosque is the enterprise, the terrorists and enterprise, than anybody who there is fair game. the stretch on for years and years. of course there's never been a terrorism case made against demos, but it's a great way to keep your intelligence pipeline coming and. >> host: have these cities developed in intel unit? in gueste ideaf .. led policing is sort of in the vanguard right now. this idea of who want to deploy assets based on what the intelligence is telling us. nobody estimate the way the n.y.p.d. has done it. that may just be because the n.y.p.d. is twice the size of the fbi. there's no police department who has the manpower, 35,000 people to create this kind of unit. they have the political will to do it. kerry sanchez, the sky from the cia testified before congress, nascar the n.y.p.d. does
counterterrorism. one of the things he said to congress, we believe you can no longer look at activities that would traditionally be protected by the first and fourth amendments. we no longer look at them as protected by the first amendment. we have to look at them through the lens has been potential precursors to terror with them. nobody stopped to say, wait a minute, the n.y.p.d. is in the constitution. congress said thank you. there is a fundamental shift in american policing that new yorkers have given them the political cover. pray kelley remains very popular. so they have the political cover to do it. >> host: we have been talking with matt apuzzo come closer prizewinner for investigative reporting. here is his book cowritten with adam
lost the title of this panel is rebuilding or evolution is to treat a and austin at the beginning and end of all digs. [laughter] the first of your book was austin, texas then and now that the republican loss of the most recent is an "seat of empire" the history of the founding costed in the battle of the republic of texas the writes for "the post" fed is also a neurologist at the same time [laughter] mark binelli a contributing
editor to men's journal and "rolling stone." he was born in and raised in the detroit area got his seventh save from columbia where we were classmates of this is a little bit of a reunion in his book is "detroit city is the place to be" and the fruit of three years he spent living in detroit after he was in new york but when it back to find out what kind of place it had become a and what he had to tell us what we all are as a nation right now. he told me if he did not have had a dispute with his detroit landlord he would still be there part time. i am sorry that happened. but i assure you find some good housing stock if you are motivated.
first he will read a passage from his book. >> thank you for coming. i will read a very short section it is pretty self-explanatory it is a description of a neighborhood of where i was living in detroit. you probably have seen photos to hear how depopulated it was going from 2 million to about 700,000 so there are neighborhoods that are barely neighborhoods but just a couple of houses on every block. >> people like to compare the vacantly and to the equivalent sized pace places. all of paris could fit into the nothing or to manhattan. a shy lee state dawson but that leads one to imagine a
landmass as a rotten lamb or something to be cordoned off like central park is beautified. that is not the case. vacant parcels across the city like tumors across the body. when enough cluster together you have urban prairies' the inevitable result will service 2,000,002 now less than half free had crept within walking distance of my street i started to think of my neighborhood that runs of st. the detroit river. on the two male stretch itself once a thriving commercial strip you could count the viable businesses onto hands. some of the and recognizable storefronts burned and collapsed earlier look like a funeral parlors left untouched.
residential streets the entire bloc had gone to field the remaining houses were schizophrenic from obvious drug spots to a cup dumper cringe or the old the bow and the late -- but bungalow to foreclosed properties. once i ventured into such a forbidding territory i would take the upper by craves the inspectors could be deafening although people would sell their porches the country rules applied if you smiled or wave you will generally get the same back saving the boys flows to radiating menace convinced me to drop the smiling part. but mostly was due to the absence of people like the '70s exploitation movies like the texas chainsaw
massacre that people who ventured down the wrong juror wrote. the scrappers reverie rare when daylight i pulled -- a saw a guy pulling pipes out of a foreclosed home into a white minivan. few blocks later on to procures came driving from the opposite direction with twisted pieces of metal including a number of shelving units. in another field shirley after he laid out his installation i notice kids were waiting to the middle of it velasco was up a set free shoes. little girl warned me it was hard to find your size or via a matching pair. oh white tipple began to bark furiously that i
thought was abandoned when i got closer i noticed a young man staring at me from the front window. i bicycle down a block of a single house left standing just dead center on one side of the street forested by and mode grass despite the isolation the two-story wood frame house was maintained of the lush garden of fruit trees surrounded by a picket fence. round face me and one dash man sat on the steps i stopped and said hello. when i got closer i noticed he had occasion. used to work in the auto industry. a plant near the eastern market the close of 1988 i made frequent deliveries
while working for my father who sold sausage casings. we figured out we probably never met back then. i did things with life takes to signify you really don't want to know. to have their job to have the suit slaughtered p.i.g.s. easing a with he got into the habit keeping them in back with as long as possible although they had to go. would he be willing to move? he shook his head this is our house we pay our taxes. that isn't happening. summit opened the gate to his back there? there also lived in the family home she attended the flowers and was pulling a wagon of garden supplies. i do this much as i can 64
years with another bought the house when i was three months old. these are some rough times. most of our jobs went overseas. i have never seen in the economy like best the barbershops ice-cream parlors are all gone this neighborhood used to be straight looking at a thicket of trees you get used to it and like the serenity of my environment we just have to be strong and keep god with you. you're in this world but wait of this world but not in it. then i realized i screwed up the''. of course, we're all in it.
[applause] >> just to frame it i think one of the things to talk about is the idea of the frontier that he troy has reverted to it is the real deal with its beginning. jeff? >> boston is because of one the and that is featured prominently in the book and this story is lamar's first contact with the area a story about what started interested and history. >> "seat of empire" talks of austin's creation of politics and the extraordinary struggle between two texas giants between dimaria and assam austin.
for a different outcome would leave as with the different states of texas. born 1839 almost died early 1840's and spring back to life thereafter by for a few twists and turns our current home town would not likely exist the southern rockies to be the texas mountains we would not remember sam houston as the political titan of his age but the explanation begins with the buffalo hunt. as any good campaigner must must, he joined and local custom of his arrival where this meant hunting and one morning as a breakfast in the cabin one of his sons burst into the room the prairie was full of buffalo. quickly astride the amounts to a ravine that intersected the colorado river in wasted
no time to shoot as many as they could. with the right weapon buffalo is easy to kill because of poor vision it relies on a sense of smell the us of the hunter stays up wind to have a rifle power it is possible to pick off a large number one by one without the heard sensing danger. says settler preferred this month said. force for it was a more thrilling technique armed with a single shot pistols he charged on horseback while on the beast. at the bottom of the ravine bisecting the prairie the march chased and shot with his holster crystal one of the largest his companions had never seen. later at the top of the ravine from the top that
would give delight a german traveler later described the scenery as idyllic 11840, but the fairyland one year after his visit thomas bill go home to his brother abbas consider this the most beautiful country i have never seen there are some of the most beautiful land i had ever held james jones in the 8239 letter expressed equal enthusiasm marching through beautiful country the face have cents a grander that i have ever imagined on the continent. politician farmer in military hero also a poet with a stunning beauty before him as he works -- looks to the colorado river as he gazes upon the woodland am prairies' straddling the waterway
grounds of black jacket and live oak trees and thickets of dogwood hackberry, elm blight did the of river bottom slated either side in the short span of three years lobar escaped despair and political humiliation to have a position of prestige to empower party disaster soon command the embryonic nation and destined for greatness. he just brought down the enormous and will the largest one companion had ever seen he now would mired natural beauty that had consistently stunt less imaginative man as himself. faced with this at vista lamar announced to fellow hunters before texas rangers
and maybe the slave jacob when he cried from the hilltop they should be the seat of the future empire. [applause] >> just to be clear this is where we are. >> this exact spot. right here by the starbucks. [laughter] >> with history or geography and i bright to assume these books for personally meaningful you had a relationship to these landscapes? you drop from detroit's living highlife?
then you went back for three years been jeff, you are not from austin. >> i grew up in houston. >> but it is your adopted home town so pretty sure you talk about what was a personal about these projects? >> the jury to -- detroit is a very segregated city it is sprawl and the city itself is only 700,000 the entire metro area is to 3 billion depending where you cut it off. growing up in suburban detroit spending time in the city as a kid my father was a knife sharpener as the parents were immigrants. it had a special place in my heart. to see the way it has been
portrayed over the years with films and media, i thought i would write about the city some way to take the form of a novel but around the beginning of 2009 with the world economy would collapse then detroit in particular all on the verge of bankruptcy and went back to roving stowed as a features writer to write to the article just about the auto industry. while i was back there i saw a journalist coming from all over the world to look at detroit as a metaphor for everything that had gone wrong. some would come for one day or to what i thought was a superficial portrait. as a native eyes started to think how i could bring more
nuance to the story to spend some time they're not only read about the most of the is dark side of what goes wrong in post industrial city but the weirdness it is a very strange in darkie anthony place but also those who used to live there. a lot of the photos are shots of old factories abandon 40 or 50 years you never see the people i wanted to haying around and talk to people to get their stories that was my goal. >> teeeight you have old friends that were still there? your parents? were there elements that you fell back into your old life at all or was it the new
detroit? >> my parents and brother are still there in the suburbs that was great personally. but i've moved into the city proper. i ended up on the block in the city that was a bunch of warehouse buildings that had been converted into law office the beginning of a little justification but not really when i first arrived the first neighbor i've met said how he would carry his gun with him when he walked his dog and i should be careful. but when they got there i remembered making deliveries for my father to one of the shops on that street when i was a kid. little connection is like that i would meet somebody
who knew somebody that knew somebody that i knew. >> jeff, why do you love lost in so much and more interesting than houston? [laughter] >> my mother says i write too many negative things about houston i lived here 12 years before i explored the the past i heard the story of a buffalo hunt into a scheme to this intersection to imagine it in that i started to take pictures and my son triggered by thinking about the book. he said in jest that i should write the book but i figure is trying to get me to shut up at the dinner table but what i had discovered these were sites i was driving by on a regular basis. it seemed important that
other people living in the austin or texas should know the stories. my first book was an attempt to spread the stories and every realized what a rich history there really is here. so in great team fees box it is important to understand where radar or where we want to go where we have been for the people that shaped the events that we experience every day. >> was interesting. we were talking just before this i am from a massachusetts we are hunched over with history by american standards when i moved to austin fl tel little fin and what was your response coming from houston? >> yes.
it seemed to be growing up there was not in the history there. houston only seem to be about a city of making money if there is a historic site they could make money they would tear it down. [laughter] by the kid is a little bit different here but things do change but there is a very rich history here i am amazed telling the story is how little true details were importance that people who have been here for a long time really knows. >> who from marc's book i wrote down what applies to both, the frontier endless horizon has proved attractive to those with a facility of country utopian images. i want to ask both of you what the frontier means in the context of the cities
that you write about. in terms of what is appealing an end to what is scary? mark? post-modern frontier of detroit? >> historically detroit founded 17 o one it is a fringe trading post basically and really for the first 100 years or longer just the frontier the middle of nowhere as a scary place to go. that sentence is me commenting on one of the things detroit has become today is this idea that everybody is gone, left behind that of the business and capital but humanity even though there are 700,000 left but treated as
a new frontier a relatively lawless place a lot of cheap land a lot of abandoned buildings about 70,000. the year i moved back there is a big news story about artist buying houses and to treat -- is in detroit one was that $100. there is a new narrative with the same time it is the worst place in the world for everything from also this idea of a possible hope of a rebirth. especially making the pitch to young people, the kenyans, artists to make it hip the new brooklyn or fill
in the blake. that was interesting dynamic because there are aspects that it does share of the modern frontier but plenty of people never left and have to live their lives they're free day and they're not a part of the narrative. they're being ignored which is interesting and the down side of the frontier traditionally the dangers of the frontier are still in detroit as well. the highest murder rates in the country, a direct connection to the frontier in my book, i was reading a section of the history book
about where the french settlers originally landed on the the jury to reverse the walked down to that stretch i was just sitting there thinking where they had shown up and a man came up and started to talk to me then lifted his sweater to show me that he had a giant machete and an ax tucked into his belt and he said it's okay hiking carry this i unlicensed carter. these are my tools. [laughter] right to. frontier. still happening. [laughter] >> jeff i was struck when austin was like and the dangers and also the excitement circa 1840. >> surge in a different
world i read a book that describes the frontier as the wide section of ground the no man's land was year before us cover the native american cultures in a row was coming with the anglo culture. what we viewed as wilderness has been viewed as holmes by a lot of people but when the anglos' first came they so wilderness that they could not live in without implementing a major transformation of the landscape them that took several generations but initially that meant building buildings to use to living in building streets if roads to travel lot to create forms for food. what is interesting to read the letters of the diaries is that they recognize what a beautiful pristine wilderness this was while at
the same time they wrote about the inevitable passing that they would have to destroy to make a hospitable to live in. it was a very dangerous place why sam houston opposed to putting the seats of government out here from the attack of mexico and indians. closely the comanche right into the heart of boston. there were indians right career sitting between the comanche campaign where the capital is now and people would scout within a stone's throw of where you're sitting now. a dangerous place where people debt on leave their house that night and if you did you carried a loaded gun with you. >> one more question but
jeff, quickly tells the story of the archives more and the statutes to blocks that you will know if you are from austin but i did not know the story of the neece civil war within texas while the other thing sort swirling around. >> mexico was still a war with texas 1841 they said to separate armies to occupy san antonio. sam houston pointed to that as a reason to pull government on a boston temper the. the population shrank from 1,000 down a 200 the people did not want the city to die so they formed the archives committee to search wagons to hold onto the land records to keep them from leaving town that was the
last hold. houston sent men to collect the records they were chased away been he said to another group somebody reing the indian alarm bell to clear the men then they came in to the land office to vote up the records. the people who love to saw was going on a very tough frontier woman started to shame the men in to some sort of action issue pointed across the street and said what is the key and ended that shed for? day wheel that out while she can now with a torch and took a look at the canon kicked it to the right the land office heard below the house to pieces if she fire the candid -- the can in.
long story short they came back realized what was going on in an end to caught up with a crew and forced them to come back. a funny story but if i had not played back we could be sitting in the middle of a prairie right now. this bill read or reread the elsewhere. [laughter] >> i am relating to those stories because i was born and raised in a small town in ohio and i relate it to the presentation yesterday where we went wrong. said now have lived in texas 15 years so i live in this contrast that to listen to
but mark, the title of your book is "detroit city is the place to be" why do you feel that way? i have my memories to go back to the '50s even though my home town was very depressed. detroit is on a grander scale so i want to know about the title of your buck in the next question, how long would it take to revitalize detroit in these towns and a higher bidder very similar? what will it take? >> thank you for the question. there is a lot of little detroit like youngstown, gary indiana, a
cleveland, the title of my book is heartfelt but somewhat ironic the from the poet ted nugent. [laughter] a song called motor city bad house. but it refers to that moment i was describing in the beginning when i first arrived all eyes on these -- detroit. people imagined it as an enclave for artist that is what it became. urban planners who had it is to reinvent the city the unsolvable mass problem urban farmers, that is mostly what i meant. as far as a timetable for
fixing. >> host: teeeight even over the course since there was there i have seen some amazing interest rations in the downtown and midtown. there are certain vintages being the worst with the reputation the most un fixable city a lot of smart people, ambitious people fake to take on that challenge. the big problem is is the city continues to languish it is the greenstone and the rest of the city has a lot of the same problems with that bankruptcy they're going through a and the absence of any federal aid aid, a state aid to cover that part makes me much more pessimistic.
>> i am from flint mr. gan -- michigander arrived to austin a few years ago talk about differences one is political the reds tabor's is the blue states and the difference that has made but second, the one thing in michigan we have water and as global were being continues could greasy a healthier detroit in the less healthy central texas? >> if you are in detroit you start to get people talking about detroit will come back i also heard the eventual global water shortage is like a positive because we're on the great lakes.
[laughter] that is a sad way to make a comeback bayou were bright. it is a real asset. also a big international border crossing with canada. they talk about try to capitalize more on that. but michigan generally votes presidential level have gone with obamacare but the governors are republicans and. rick snyder appointed the mayor and kevin or as the emergency manager that is running a the city that has power in he made the decision to put the city into vagrancy. with that divide over the best way to fix these things
that governor when he took office made the decision to slash corporate tax rates throughout the state to lower the business back but he would not increase a but instead to appoint the emergency manager to move to said it managed a grossi. maybe in some ways they're not as different as they seem. >> i have a quick question because we were talking before how even the contrast to be in in disrepair the contrast between austin now with the. >> host: teeeight of 2013
when it was ended glory-- but in the '70s when it was not to. >> what i read in the '70s i was not here then bet downtown in particular that was pretty run down. because of that it attracted energetic people without monday to start up the bars of the music venues that eventually gave to the notice of a lot of people. that kept the is holding on until the city ticketing interest to revitalize the justin the past 10 years i have received a huge change it is a different place for removed period 1981 even when i started to write the books ted years ago. >> it is the odd endeavor because you write the early history of a place that everybody cares about
because what it says about the future you can lock 10 feet without hearing about how cool austin is or if that is a reaction to that orientation? >> it is the place to be. web my wife and i were looking to move back this is where we wanted to come. that reputation has only grown with the economic opportunity but also a vibrant city to live in a. >> another son of the motor city and from european immigrants i know what you talk about. you have not touched on my part with greenfield, a puritan area what is that like now? >> again, you talk about a
lot of the neighborhoods of detroit are unrecognizable. i don't know when you were last fact there. >> 15 years. >> my father for instance when he first moved to detroit from italy in the early '60s, he lifted a neighborhood very german and italian around a 7-mile. when i moved back i went back to the old neighborhood the house she lived in was gone the neighborhood was unrecognizable. the wingback that is part of the problem look at "the new york times" to read about these amazing developments in the downtown area the skyscrapers ever completely abandoned in 2009 have been
picked up for a steel by developers in their moving people downtown but if you go to the neighborhood where you grew up and it is bad or worse than ever to. >> you mentioned earlier you were thinking about writing a novel about detroit. what would push to to do nonfiction that fictionalizes could not? >> it was an instance where the cliche of you cannot make this stuff up was true. i was fact there reporting for "rolling stone." i met a guy who's had a
block he would sneak into abandoned buildings and take pictures. he took me into this skyscraper 15 or 20 stories called the metropolitan building the center where all the jewelers' offices and shops were. completely abandoned we climb to the roof and were staring out at this crazy landscape of abandoned skyscrapers. i saw reporters writing the same stories over and over. i just knew there is so much more to the reality fact it would be a rich bottomless well of stories but eventually i had to leave
because every day i would open the newspaper there board be something new i wanted to write about so i had to cut myself off. >> i am also from michigan. >> do you have a club bin austin? [laughter] >> there is a big interest for a lot of people to help. >> host: lamar growth in the way they care but there is a challenge to understand to make a space not biased and understand where the growth is happening to focus your attention in their. in your opinion someone who has been in the area who understands how things are
going in the individual what is the best thing we can do to help with three growth in support? >> there are a lot of great nonprofits operating. the question you asked earlier has led to bad things. the sense of lawlessness and also created a void that forces people to step up. i have a chapter about people whose tepid to do things that people in austin or other functioning cities don't have to do. i read about a group of guys who patrolled neighborhoods and actually look for a and catch criminals. but it is possibly slightly
scary but it is needed to. it's also urban farming farming, they're all these vacant plots of land where neighbors are tired to see the fields where the grass is up to the waist. some people take them over to start planting not of the gardens but little farms. that is happening all over this city. do some research online there are different organizations that could use your help. >> this is the last question >> what it you think about the plans to sell off the collection of the dia?
>> it is a terrible play a vital figure will happen but it is another thing that of the emergency manager either of the key is serious but floating the idea but it made me think. he comes out of the world of corporate bankruptcy like the auto company bailouts i do believe were necessary but when a company goes through that sort of managed trade groups say they are not forced to sell all assets they generally get a large infusion of cash that allows them to restructure to move forward to make themselves healthy again. there is no talk of that if you sell everything off you will not have the city left in the and. >> that brings this session
to an end to i will remind every petty the authors will be in the signing tent i writer in austin my name is daniel oppenheimer take you for coming. i should have introduced myself in the beginning. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> you're watching live coverage of the 2013 texas book festival on c-span2. the next panel will start in about 15 minutes or so with a panel of politics and president obama. in the meantime we will show you pass coverage from texas >> i was trained as a
scientist but became richer later. for me when of the bigger responsibilities is asking tough questions of science is often in cheerleading. those who ask a lot of tough questions of lot of headlines are that science events is but not until later when people start to ask questions about what happened in the long ago so it is important to ask the questions of ethics but also not demonize science in the process. of this is portraying the people behind the science in sometimes well-intentioned scientists accidentally have negative effects. i thought it is important to present the issues but not a scare people so much of the story is about
african-americans who have a history of being afraid to go to the doctor because the history of being used in research. i didn't want to make that problem worse. site and this is scary to people rather nanotechnology that we don't understand or cloning a or it is easy to scare people. how do i balance all of these things? asking the tough questions but making clear the science says good. i don't want to scare people away from going to the doctor. people often come to my even ince that i am supposed to go to the doctor next week. should be worried?
so we talk about no. you should go to the doctor. read the forms so i spend a lot of time translating that to people. >> the point about demonizing physicians but to deal with human experimentation but how could you experiment on humans without their consent so i need to recreate'' makes people so desperate that doctors will lead in fact, that patients so looking at it from a different perspective of history there is a lot of responsibility there. >> context is everything to put people in the mindset this is what it was like in the 1910 or 1950 is why
people were doing what they redoing it is different from today because people pick up the book to read about research without consent they read it from today's perspective randy you can get into trouble when you look at it through the eyes of what we know today. >> dimension to the medical viding but another thing that is collateral damages the effect on families. could you both talk about that a little bit? >> my second book asleep deals with the sleepy sickness epidemic a very personal story to be known as the forgotten epidemic literally not one book on the subject to and began researching because my grandmother was a survivor.
living in dallas texas 16 years old and she came down with the case of sleeping sickness she slept and had a slow recovery a relatively normal life after that but i knew that there was something not quite right she seemed removed or detached they would say she was that way since the sleeping sickness epidemic that i realize nothing was written in a surprisingly as much as it is considered forgotten and lofting contacted by people who said my great-grandmother had that and we always wondered. there is mental illness involves so people wondered if it was genetic so now
they know it was related to this or the academic blind dash epidemic circulating at the time so it is a personal story for me. >> science is personal for everybody. it affects everyone's lives in ways you don't think about on the databases. there are personal stories in one job is to bring those out to show people this is how it is personal and my book is about many things but the one story to grab people is the one about the effect of losing a mother to cancer had on her family. so much of what happened to her family after she died debris used in research, they dealt with so many things with a father
that was never there and five kids when the young guest was only a few months old and the oldest was 16 and thrown out to the world. very personal story stabiles i've literally get every day from somebody who has lost a parent who connect on down level. or people who almost lost a parent those of the most emotional that they say and who weber important got cancer and they are still here. i did not go through that because of hers reduced to help develop the drugs. fact is the incredible personal connection that so many people have with it >> we will be back with more live coverage of the 2013
texas book festival in a few minutes here it is a look back at some previous coverage. >> struggled with being president is you run for office use a vote for me and i will do these things. parenthetically, the image that many people have created the most presidents are corrupted without conviction to say whenever they want to say, thomas patterson who is the preeminent scholar of the relationship between the presidency and to the media has said, looking over the last several presidencies presidencies, it is astonishing how our presidents try to do precisely what they say they will do when they run unless something big happens.
tour of the three greatest presidents lincoln and roosevelt wrote the most visible campaign promises. thank god the compiled a list to free the slaves. and trying to hold the union together to stop the expansion and roosevelt promised when he ran he would balance the budget in 1932 that is precisely the wrong field to do with 25 percent unemployment. by and large presidents to try to keep their campaign promises. one of the real issues is how to run a vast and complex enterprise and still deal with the incoming fire? for example, president bush did not run for president to deal with osama bin live in. he clearly did want to get rid of saddam hussein in to
replace close attention people would see he watches -- you was obsess but he never thought and 11 would have been. so it happened at. when those happen you have two choices. you can say iran for president to do these things so this is what i will do but this is so major reshaped the whole first term but if not you will fail but if all you do is pursue the agenda he will probably fail. lincoln was somewhat disingenuous although technically accurate when he